copyright removal

rob · #46 11-15-2005, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roscoe36

I think some folks are worried about reselling/rebranding. If their clients can see where the magic soft comes from, they can also see the cost and that makes it difficult to markup as PREMIUM SEO service.

That raises another interesting point....

The question of reselling this product... if there were an unbranded option, then there is a possibility of more sales.

Not every vBulletin board is run/managed by it's owner.... and hence will not (ever) be aware of vBSEO. These people are surely a target for resellers.... but will not want vBSEO splattered on their unbranded boards.

Anthony Parsons · #47 11-15-2005, 09:02 PM

That is a good point from a marketing perspective.

disapointed · #48 11-18-2005, 07:28 AM

I just sent a pre-sales e-mail to you guys regarding this subject before I saw the forums. I guess this thread and the other one in the pre-sales section answered it. Please dont take this as an insult as I mean it sincerely but for someone so smart as to be able to come up with this product to begin with you guys dont seem all that bright when it comes to marketing.

I was all set to buy this but wont now because of the copyright notice.

In a free version, yes, credit should be given but in a paid version (and a pricey one as expensive as vbulletin itself) it's pretty "out there" to expect people to go with that, especially when it's obvious your reasons are just essentially keyword stuffing for lack of a better phrase. Pretty nervy to expect your customers to pay and then advertise for you while spamming google on top of it.

Oh well, I guess I will just use one of the other myriad hacks out there that do the exact same thing for free without the oppressive TOS.

That said- it is your product and obviously you can do as you wish, however that is why I said you are pretty unsavvy with regards to marketing...

If you look at your "pre sales" section- your two largest threads *BY FAR* are in regards to people sounding off about the copyright notices and saying (like me) that if it were not for that they would buy, but because of your position they definitely WONT...

That should tell you something-

Keith Cohen · #49 11-18-2005, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by disapointed

I was all set to buy this but wont now because of the copyright notice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by disapointed

Oh well, I guess I will just use one of the other myriad hacks out there that do the exact same thing for free without the oppressive TOS.

If there are free hacks that will do the same thing for you as vbSEO, then why were you all set to pay $150 for this one? That makes no sense at all. If you can get Porsche for free, or you can buy one for $80k, who in their right mind would pay $80k?

I think you're just trolling myself.

rob · #50 11-18-2005, 08:45 AM

Guys,

I have a potential customer who it looks like I'll kit out with vBulletin... obviously as a web design / development company, I'll be going via the unbranded vBulletin route (ya dont want the client to see that do ya.... lmao)

It's a shame the same was not available for this product.

As a web design / development company it's great vBulletin has this option because I CAN sell their product to my clients (at a far bigger price).....

As an SEO specialist however, it's a shame I cant do the same for this product because I sure as hell dont want VBSEO (instead of my SEO link) on the site.

Please let me know ASAP when this option is available.

disapointed · #51 11-18-2005, 09:12 AM

here's a free hack that does the same thing:

http://www.daniweb.com/techtalkforums/thread9379.html

There are zillions of them out there. The reason why I was going to pay $150 for something I could get for free is simply I am not a programmer/geek type so I would need to pay someone to install the hack for me.

Dont get me wrong, I am not trying to hassle anyone... best of luck and all that- just seems like a shame the owners are so obtuse as to not realize they are slitting thier own throats by basically telling everyone to f- off but it's your funeral, it's of no consequence to me. Some other developer will just make the same thing but actually listen to thier potential customers.

You pick out my post, yet somehow ignore the fact that the single largest thread on the ENTIRE "pre sales" section is this one telling the owners they ~would~ have bought it if they were not so inflexible.

To ~most~ people that would tell them something. Apparently not in this case lol

In any event, no hard feelings- just seems a shame to literally drive away customers by saying FU to them thats all. Maybe this mod does more than that 1 hack, hard to say- it's possible but all I would be doing is to be giving my competitors a "roadmap" as to how to achieve the same results by having the branding on there which I find gaudy in general anyway so I am better off going another way and it seems most people feel the same, but what do we know? We are just the customers. LOL

Regards-

p.s.- I just clicked through to your site and no offense but now I understand your position. While you have a good amount of members, your site is just a "fan" type site with pretty low Alexa numbers (no offense meant) so you simply are not really in a competitive situation like I am. The sites I am competing with are some of the biggest on the net for ***INCREDIBLY*** competitive keywords so that might explain why it matters more to me than to you. In any event good luck.

Keith Cohen · #52 11-18-2005, 09:57 AM

Alexa numbers are totally useless. That's funny....

And, if you read around the threads, you will see that they WILL BE releasing a branding free version, it's just not available yet.

If you're in such a competitive market, $150 should be pocket change to get your site better rankings in real search engines. My little "fan" site profits several multiples of that amount each month.

If your competitors are running vBulletin, and have any sense at all (which they must, if it's that competitive) they ALREADY KNOW about vbSEO anyway.

What's your URL?

disapointed · #53 11-18-2005, 10:51 AM

"Alexa numbers are totally useless. That's funny....

"

Well, you seem to want to attack me at every turn, I guess you are just one of those types- I notice you did not mention the free hack I posted. Clearly either you are either just 1) a naturally argumentative person, 2) financially involved with this site or 3) are a sycophant... maybe all 3. Either way, my time is simply too valuable to waste debating you but I will agree that Alexa is at best a rough guide and subject to manipulation and vagaries. I have multiple sites, not just one but thier numbers are closer to this sites than yours.

"And, if you read around the threads, you will see that they WILL BE releasing a branding free version, it's just not available yet."

I did not see that however it's not my job to have to hunt around the site, thats the owners job to make it known to potential clients. If that is the case I will take another look possibly but more likely I will have paid a developer to do a custom job by the time they get thier act together.

"If you're in such a competitive market, $150 should be pocket change to get your site better rankings in real search engines."

It is- you have an odd way of missing the mark- thats what I just said as to why I would rather just buy a prepackaged mod so I would not have to bother with paying someone to install some other mod.

"My little "fan" site profits several multiples of that amount each month."

I was not trying to be insulting, I suppose it could seem that way. Even if you are #1 for "motorcycles" on google that is still an infinitely smaller category than my keywords so it's still a moot point. Has vbseo gotten you to #1 on Google for "motorcycles" out of curiosity? If the answer is no than we are thinking in very different ways- I expect my sites to be #1 for vastly harder to get keywords. Your site looks great- I am not belittling it and I am not being insulting- we are simply on different levels in terms of our expectations/results, and the difficulty of keywords we are seeking to get ranked for so I am simply in a more competitive feild than you, no offense meant.

"If your competitors are running vBulletin, and have any sense at all (which they must, if it's that competitive) they ALREADY KNOW about vbSEO anyway."

I see- so anybody who is ~anybody~ is using vbseo I guess. If you are not being paid, you should be, being a sycophant does not pay the bills. If you like the software, thats great. I am sure it works well but so do a lot of free mods that dont make the person installing it be a billboard and using them to get ranked higher in the serps.

If the site owners want to get ranked high for s-e-o terms than I would be happy to help them out- I am a master... of course they will have to put my site link on thier homepage.

Keith Cohen · #54 11-18-2005, 10:56 AM

You don't have to be a programmer to install that free hack. It has step by step instructions. It's all just searching/editing text files. So you could save yourself the $150, and not have to worry about having it branded.

The fact is, vbSEO does it better, more completely, and more efficiently than the hacks. PLUS, when you upgrade to a new version of vBulletin you'll have to re-hack. With vbSEO it requires no edits and no work at all to upgrade from vBulletin 3.5.x, and only one or two small edits for vBulletin 3.0.x.

Quote:

"And, if you read around the threads, you will see that they WILL BE releasing a branding free version, it's just not available yet."

I did not see that however it's not my job to have to hunt around the site, thats the owners job to make it known to potential clients. If that is the case I will take another look possibly but more likely I will have paid a developer to do a custom job by the time they get thier act together.

Juan stated it in post #13 in this same thread.

Quote:

I see- so anybody who is ~anybody~ is using vbseo I guess.

I didn't say that. I was just implying that anyone who is an experienced vBulletin admin frequents vbulletin.com and vbulletin.org, and vbSEO, as well as other SEO solutions, are mentioned there quite a bit. So if they are wanting to be competitive in SEO, they will have already done their research. A small blurb in your footer that says "SEO by vBSEO 2.2.0 © 2005, Crawlability, Inc." isn't going to cause them to have an epiphany.

(Oh, and "motorcycles" isn't the keyword I'm shooting for. It's too broad. We are mainly for a specific model. Try a google search for "fireblades" or "fireblade forum".)

disapointed · #55 11-18-2005, 11:14 AM

"You don't have to be a programmer to install that free hack. It has step by step instructions. It's all just searching/editing text files. So you could save yourself the $150, and not have to worry about having it branded."

Yeah, I'm really stupid with programming stuff. I could probably do it but I would rather spend the 150 than spend the time which is why I was irritated with your comments because you indicated I was not sincere about buying the software with the trolling comment whatever that meant. We would not be having this conversation if it were not for the copyright thing, I would have already bought the software lol - YES- it REALLY DOES bug me THAT much!!!!!

"I didn't say that. I just said that anyone who is an experienced vBulletin admin frequents vbulletin.com and vbulletin.org, and vbSE0, as well as other SE0 solutions, are mentioned there quite a bit."

Oh, ok- my fault then. I would not know. Even though I was being a little mean spirited, I really meant what I said about not having the time to "debate you"- I dont post in forums as I dont like to waste time on these kinds of conversations and my posting here almost equals my entire experience with vb so I would have no clue. I simply know from researching it that there are a lot of se mods. I dont even HAVE vb installed yet. Partly why is that I dont like them forcing their copyright down my throat either unless you pay TWICE- I am not picking on this site only- I think it is extremely tasteless, petty and underhanded to do so but it's a free country... even peurto rico as it is a US territory and they can do as they wish with thier software. Although having said that- someone WILL come out with a competing product that does the same thing but without the heavyhanded restrictions/blackmail to remove the copyright so while it looks like a quality product and they might be in the lead now- there is a vaccum to be filled and I am sure they wont be for long if they keep this up but thats thier call.

Best wishes-

ok- p.s.- saw you just add this-

"So if they are wanting to be competitive in SE0, they will have already done their research. A small blurb in your footer that says "SE0 by vBSEO 2.2.0 © 2005, Crawlability, Inc." isn't going to cause them to have an epiphany."

To some extent you might have a point but I really am an seo master and I have never heard of this site before today. Maybe if someone is into VB ~AND~ into seo maybe you have a point but as I said my sites are much broader than "forum" sites- I simply want a forum as an add on and my competitors do too so while theoretically you might have a point, in my case not really.

"(Oh, and "motorcycles" isn't the keyword I'm shooting for. It's too broad. We are mainly for a specific model. Try a google search for "fireblades" or "fireblade forum".)"

I figured- I was being sarcastic however not really. I own a lot of different sites with different themes but the one for the forum is a movie site- I am not on the first page of results right now but expect to, and WILL be #1 for "movies" or "films" or "video"- starting to get why I say my field is more competitive??? Ranking #1 for motorcycles would be a piece of cake comparatively speaking. I am going up against Disney, Time Warner, and even yahoo and google ~itself~ since they came out with google video now...

Starting to get the picture as to why every little bit helps or hurts???

I was not being a jerk - it's an infinitely tougher keyword to rank for so yes it does matter to have the copyright on there, besides it simply looks tacky and you are forgetting the fact that it is not free software- I should not even be having to have this conversation- period. If this company wants to hire me to do some SE0 and pays me, would it be fair of me to also demand a credit on every page of this site?!?!?!

Dont think so- it's ridiculious to even have this conversation.

Best wishes

Keith Cohen · #56 11-18-2005, 11:22 AM

All this said, I plan on purchasing the branding free version of vbSEO when it's available. I own branding free licenses for vBulletin and all other hacks/add-ons I have installed.

rob · #57 11-18-2005, 11:26 AM

to add to this argument....

There are countless people who know very little of anything who'll turn to a development house to provide a solution like vBulletin. They just set it up and forget it.... how do the forum owners ever know about vBseo? even if they did they would STILL pay someone to set it up coz they're always too scared to break something.

Maybe you are insinuating that these people don't exist... but they do. A copyright free version would allow people like these to be sold to.

Anyway, it's already established there will be a copyright free version.... we've all had our say and I see little benefit in continuing this thread. Every argument has been fought... every rebuttal has been said and this thread should now be closed so we can all wait for the announcement we are all waiting for.

pcbcom · #58 11-18-2005, 01:48 PM

Ok, no one has stated my situation. I had VB installeded today, why... well-let me shed a little background to my situation;

I own a city domain name (ie. DaytonaBeach.com) and have owned it for 10 years. But for the last five years I have been working another job since the area was not ready for supporting the internet enough to justify me quitting my job and work just the site.

Fast forward 5 years to today... now having years of experience on the internet, SEO, Marketing, Media, Advertising, and Technologies (Yes, I was a Director for an International Agency!) I return to promote the site as the area has changed and modernized to acceptable standards. Upon review of my competitors, some of which are area TV, newspapers, publications, etc., I found that a forum is critical to me competing. Additionally, I found that most of my competitors have part-time web designers and web masters with no one focusing on SEO. Now with that in mind, my forum will have 0 (El' ZERO) post from the start (maybe 20-50 post of our own) and I MUST promote the forums to build it. It is desirable to have SEO optimization from the start, but I can't with the current vSEO copyright status. Why not, the vSEO staff asks!? What would vSEO optimize for the search engines? A blank forum, my 20-50 post to get conversation started? BUT, what the copyright notice did is advertise to these part-timers and the GM of my competitor’s which has 50,000+ post!! So vSEO has HURT me as my competitors will dominate the search engines with all their postings. And little old me... just made vSEO more money and cut off my hand despite it feeding me.

So, what do I do? I want to use your product, but I can't as long as the copyright is there. And about people finding you, well... just as I found you through vbgallery (which offers a copyright free option for $40) my competitors can research, ask, read and through the search engines.

Awaiting company response, as I do want to spend money with you.

Regards,
Charles

Joe Ward · #59 11-18-2005, 01:54 PM

@All:

While your discussion is encouraged, please refrain from using inappropriate or unprofessional language to express yourself.

Keith Cohen · #60 11-18-2005, 02:09 PM

@Joe:

Sorry. I won't use "epiphany" again.